Knowledge vs wisdom and its fallacies [P]

[Rani]

An old soul rested in starclan staring down at the clans through a pool of water as he often did. Sure he spent some time interacting with those he lost and gained again but a large part of him could not be torn from the habit of watching what he could not help. Perhaps it was habit, the tom had spent a long life helping his clan only to not have that as an option anymore, perhaps it was simply a hobby in endless death. Maybe that was why he kept his grizzled old appearance still and didnt look as he used to, a young warrior with all limbs intact, instead appearing as old as he had died.


His mind was as sharp as it was when he was young though, not muddled and confused as it was when it had cost him his life.


Ridgeclaw didnt like that new leader at all he found, frowning ever deeper as days went on even as Bumble-brat started to shape the clan into something sharp. The molly was not as she was when she was young, a good cat eager to learn and do better then her crueler and foolish elders, a friend to his granddaughter Cinderpaw. No Bumblestar was now ever harsher and crueler and as foolish as the ones before her were, if in a whole new way. Disapproval twisted his muzzle as he watched the meeting, eyes catching on one loud apprentice and he snorted muttering "Calm yourself youngin' youre not helping your case and its not like she's listening to you or ever will.... You'd be better off yelling at a rock." to the ears of no one.


Still, he thought, standing and shaking himself when the meeting was over and day in the living world dipped into night, Frogpaw at least might listen and learn where her leader would not and was even asking for help. Some progress and hope where otherwise there was little and the ex elder decided to indulge her prayer. He sat melding the space into the old camp that had sunk and drew Frogpaws dreaming mind in waiting for her to appear and see the star speckled cat in front of her. Even if they got nowhere in their talk her reaction to waking in starclan in front of the cat who'd mentored two past leaders would be interesting enough.

@Sakura.Fawn

[Dakotaa]

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꒷꒦꒷꒦꒷ ☁︎ ☂︎ ☁︎ ꒷꒦꒷꒦꒷
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| ⛆ @Rani ⛆ |
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˚₊‧꒰ა ☁︎ ໒꒱ ‧₊˚

⛆ It wasn’t uncommon for her to share dreams with her ancestors… actually, it had become quite common. Though it left her with many nights of feeling poorly rested… However, little FrogPaw spent too much time complaining so instead, she just slept longer… Which prolonged training… Ugh, am I a loser or what?! Self-deprecating thoughts were quite common from the mollie too, for she spent so much of her days being turned away and told how dumb she was… it was exhausting…

⛆ As she enters the dream world, she didn’t frolic like most cats her age would when seeing the trees, grass and stars… Rather, she sat calmly, waiting for who had called her here… She understood the routine, for this wasn’t her first time seeing dead cats when she was asleep… She must be a ghost magnet or something… Right?

˚₊‧꒰ა ☁︎ ໒꒱ ‧₊˚
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[Rani]

.....No reaction. Hmph, damn brat. You show the kids these days the majesty of starclan and indulge their prayers for the wisdom of their elders and they just act like its another hunting patrol. Back in his day they were awed at the honor! Reverent of the opportunity! Thankful and all that! This young whipper-snapper was just standing there blank like she had the brain of a rock!


Hmm maybe thats why she started her one apprentice crusade against Bumblestar in the worst possible way, all indigent morals no sense. That could be it. Well ol Ridgeclaw was here to fix that by harsh lessons if he needed to. Frogpaw wanted guiding to achieve her goals and she'd be getting it the hard way if need be, if she wanted someone kind she might've prayed to his old apprentice Cindersky she was around here somewhere... Not talking to cats though actually he might poke her later. Nope Frogpaw had Ridgeclaw, who'd mentored Sparrowflight, Cindersky, and Necterflame and been known as the hell mentor when he'd been at it. Let this begin.


"Welcome to lesson time runt, seeing as how you are just sitting there like a braindead pigeon you know the deal. You prayed for some guidance and here I am. Lets start with how your head's in the right place but you approached it in the worst way and then we can move on and just chat about where your heads at with all this or whatever."


Ridgeclaw wasnt a emotional talky cat or whatever he'd try but Frogpaw probably shouldnt expect the most tactful words from this guy.


"Why in the stars did you even think Bumblestar would even listen to you for start? She's shown she doesnt listen or care about her clanmates opinions already, you all saw the situation with Cinderpaw. If she didnt care when the entire clan and my granddaughter was yelling at her in a meeting why would she care now? Especially when the cat yelling at her was an apprentice (strike one until you prove yourself warriors will just view you young and stupid) and two when you in particular are already in trouble?


Never argue with the leaders when already in it kid, even if you dont care about consequences they at that time already view you as a screw up and will write you off from the get go unless youve got real skills. Like are one of those special talkers or something that kinda stuff."
From what he saw Frogpaw didnt, yet, she had the potential to grow there.


"Then lets talk about methods. Were you trying to convince she the mighty herself or your clan?

The leaders word is not law, not really, but to counter it you need the clan. Or at least a majority or the most skilled members. Stars, riverclan had a situation recently where Beansprout was being an idiot and the majority said no and he was forced to listen because he cant force them all.
If you were trying to convince high and mighty you were doomed from the start. You know she doesnt listen. Then you insulted her. Immediate wrong move, cats will refuse to listen, even to good points, once insulted. Incorrectly too, Bumble-brat has clan blood, her mother is a long line of shadowclan and she was born into the clan. She just got kidnapped by twolegs as most do."
Even Ridgeclaw had been stolen at some point.
"Plus she was disinclined to listen in that moment, she said it herself. You'dve been better off making a short calm respectful point (as much as it grated) and asking her to wait until tomorrow to hear you out before sending him away. That'd given you time and not set her off, make her more inclined to listen.

Again, if you wanted to convince her."


Which as he would explain soon was the wrong strategy. If Frogpaw wanted change she'd need to learn rebellion, something thunderclan knew. And he'd teach her after giving a moment to let this sink in. And see if she could even take the constructive criticism.


"Now I aint disagreeing, youre in the right in my mind. Im trying to teach here so dont blow your top. But if you cant stay calm and hear this lesson, as it is harsh, Im also not forcing you to stay. You can leave. But if youre willing to listen and learn I can teach you about what you should do to change things"

@Sakura.Fawn (shouldve warned you about ridge prior to the teardown sorry lol. Once he's done with his lecture he'll start teaching her about social rebellion and talk about morals and if youre still in)

[Dakotaa]

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꒷꒦꒷꒦꒷ ☁︎ ☂︎ ☁︎ ꒷꒦꒷꒦꒷
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| ⛆ @Rani ⛆ |
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˚₊‧꒰ა ☁︎ ໒꒱ ‧₊˚

⛆ She listens, and to one’s surprise, doesn’t take offence to the criticism towards her… actions… Yeah, it was quite embarrassing, for she basically had a temper tantrum at her den mates ceremonies, but things wouldn’t have been thought about if she didn’t say anything… If only she had waited like MapleFace… FrogPaw never was the kind to wait however, not recently at least…

⛆ That begs the question, should she just shut her mouth as she did moons ago? Keep quiet, never speak out again? It seemed like the best option considering all she ever did was got in trouble… Her ears flatten slightly as she sighs… FrogPaw couldn’t stop being Frogpaw…! But maybe she could calm her roll a bit, at least until she dug herself out of the hole she was in…

⛆ “I’ll take any advice you could give me, please,” she said calmly…

˚₊‧꒰ა ☁︎ ໒꒱ ‧₊˚
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[Rani]

Heh! Well look at that! Thats what the crotchety old starclan cat liked to see! Willingness to listen to mistakes and advice and fix them! Good. Sulking did nothing and the tom had hated when his old apprentices had taken his lectures like he'd beaten them. He'd only ever beaten them verbally and though he was a tom full of a great many endless harsh lectures he didnt mean them maliciously and always gave praise when due. Like now.


"Good! I like that, very good. Ive advice to give."
The tom chuckled gruffly standing and circling the apprentice, taking her in before stopping in front of her again and speaking.


"Now as I said before going after that Bumble-brat was doomed from the start. That kids changed since she was a kind young thing, I even used to know here back when she was your age and she was much different. No, she's as stubborn as she used to be but now twice as heartless about it. She will not listen to you and Ive told you why.

To a roaring crowd of her own clans rage however? Stronger leaders have caved to that, stars Aspenstar was taken low her own clan for not being a good enough later and while she died before properly dismissed it was a stop-gap.


Leaders have left their clan, lives intact to find themselves powerless when they thought themselves strong. The clans gives the leader their might not the stars, not really"
And it wasnt like Bumblebreak had starclan. Not really. No cat really knew what was going on with the guardians right now but that they were pitching a fit(?) with the living. But all knew they were especially done with thunderclan. Fair enough but it meant that no one must have complete approval from them, even Bumblestar.


"No as I said before, to prompt change you want the clan with you. Delay the tyrant with platitudes for a day like I said and move fast. Find those that looked unhappy first in the meetings, like Mapleface was, and gather those on your side. Gather the dissenters, there will always be those who dont like the leaders. And for situations like this where it is unjust the kind like the queens elders and medicine cats are your allies.

In this particular situation the family and friends of the wronged too and the wronged themselves.


Talk them into presenting an united front to the leader not just trickling in one by one where they are easily rebuffed solo. Leaders will often propose this type of confrontations but that is because it is for their benifit and on their terms that way. At a meeting is not the place it is too soon and too easily distracted unless all, especially the strongest warriors are with you. You must wait for the moment.


Then talk to your allies about gathering more for this moment. You cannot know every cat in your clan personally, these cats first gathered might know or be able to convince more to your cause while you are busy.


You must explain your cause, your reasoning to all you can. As youre not personal friends with Blazepaw this is an advantage as you can ensure this is not personal but moral. Most cats have only heard the leaders side and will naturally believe it and think no further. That's their leader after all. But leaders are only cats."


Here the tom hesitated, glancing over Frogpaw with a critical eye and sighing. The long lived cat wanted the little molly to be successful he really did but... He wasnt sure he had much faith in the scrap of fluff. Not for this next step. This is where cats failed in two ways.
Ridgeclaw sighed.


"And here's the worst bit to manage. Often the most critical to do. This is why leaders are near impossible to argue against and why even the most staunch rebellions fail.

Kit do you know the best and only way to truely know how to defeat your enemy?"


The greying tom left no time to respond, completely certain she did not know the answer. With a low shake of the head he flopped to the ground, seemingly exhausted by the conversation stumped leg impacting heavy with the ground.


"You understand them. Completely and utterly. You understand their reasoning, why theyre doing this and how they justify it to themselves. To know the way to victory is to know your opponent like you know yourself.

However, few manage this kid and Im not sure you will after that meeting. Though Im willing to help you try. Cats tend to either be so opposed to seeing their enemy as a cat with their own valid reasoning and good intentions or find their own arguments crumbling when they understand them. Leaders can manage this, its how they get to where they are. Or at least leaders that last can. So lets see if I can teach you to do so too."

@Sakura.Fawn