ThunderClan: Life Before 2023's Sinkhole - Page 1567

**BEAR.** · #**15661** April 23rd, 2022, 10:32 PM

"Can I vote you off the Thunderwillow?"

Sardonic was the only way to describe him in the moment, frustration spiking through his veins as Jaystride stared at Shiningskies. "You seriously have so little faith in the Clan? Why is your priority for the test run not the cat who has taken it upon herself to give the other Clans an excuse to attack us again?" Attacking kids during a Gathering was a huge deal, and she wasn't even invited. She followed the Thundercrew intentionally to stir dung up. Had ThunderClan been in a better state, he probably wouldn't have minded her actions as much (conflict could be good!) - but targeting apprentices was low.

If Shiningskies didn't want chaos, he was pretty freaking sure there'd be less cats on the 'let's keep Firebird around' train than there'd be on Nectarflame's. It was short-sighted at best. "It's nice to know our Clan would still rather avoid nipping problems in the bud before things escalate further. How Eveningstar of you." The guy stalled on trying to deal with the RiverClan situation before it blew up, and frankly Jaystride didn't see any difference in what Shiningskies was going for.

Nectarflame was an internal matter that could be dealt with at any time. Firebird ... not so much, especially when it drew the attention from an enemy they weren't prepared to defeat.

Fur bristled, he growled lowly to Cindersky. "This is ridiculous."

[ @tulle, @NinjaBloss ]

**versailles** · #**15662** April 23rd, 2022, 10:35 PM

➵ [ cornpaw | he/him ]

cornpaw watched shiningskies climb up the thunderwillow with curious eyes. voting sounded..like, pretty boring. couldn't some cat (not a dumb warrior!!!) just decide if the other cat should stay or not? kick 'em out. survival of the fittest or whatever it was called! he sighed dramatically as the molly proposed a test run, assuming it was going to be the big dummy firebird. no.

oh.
nectarflame.

his nose scrunched up, his fur bristled, his large eyes narrowed at the ginger feline. "that's - THAT'S -" he began, making his voice loud and clear. only a second later, it felt like he couldn't speak anymore. the golden and brown tom crouched down, brows furrowing in annoyance - because how dare she even suggest that!! that stupid idea!! this is all eveningstars fault. and aspenstars. and dogbarks! and DAWNSTARS! never ever had - just!! nectarflame had, but - urgh!!! shiningskies didn't even NEED to be up there! he should just climb up there and kick her off!

the scar on his flank tingled slightly. his eyes scanned the crowd for the bengal. she'd brought them here, and now he had this dumb scar (if only he chose to control himself.) but she'd found him in the snow..and I didn't want her to!!

with a scowl etched onto his face, he stood up and stormed away, taking a new seat along the edges of the camp walls. this was all stupid, and everyone was just as stupid.

**Adderbite** · #**15663** April 23rd, 2022, 10:36 PM

NETTLETONGUE
@tulle (for the mention)

What an interesting turn of events. Dawnstar was gone. Rainpaw had taken steps to make an announcement of her departure. Now Shiningskies was taking it into her paws to potentially exile a Clanmate. Nettletongue kept herself toward the corner of the Clearing. Her eyes were fixed upon the molly. Her tail lashed with irritation. What were all these cats thinking? Why was everyone deciding that they could make announcements? Shouldn't it be agreed upon by the whole Clan? Until a new leader was chosen?

Her gaze shifted to her paws. Did it even matter anymore? She just wanted ThunderClan to return to its former glory. She was painfully aware that her abrasive tendencies made her unpopular, but she still believed her Clanmates deserved better. If Shiningskies was going to make the effort to organize the Clan, then Nettletongue would follow. Most importantly? She wanted for ThunderClan to return to power of its own volition. They'd show ShadowClan. They had made a terrible mistake by abandoning them while they were still vulnerable.

Her head lowered as she listened to the molly. Even though she believed that Shiningskies was setting the right example by taking charge, she wasn't exactly sure that she was making the right choices. A voting system? "What if the cat overseeing the votes has an ulterior motive? This system could be abused." She pointed out. Her pelt burned with embarrassment. Was she even making any sense? "How are we to be certain that some cat isn't going to tamper with the results?"

"How do we know that you aren't suggesting this because you want to be rid of Nectarflame?" Running to ShadowClan was humiliating, yes, and Dawnstar had abandoned them. But Nectarflame thought she was doing the right thing. Was that worth punishing her over? Maybe Nettletongue was biased because she had developed a crush on a loner. Her mother had taken it upon herself to punish her. Tentatively, she glanced over at Cindersky. It was her opportunity to assert herself. Couldn't she see that?

**littlelove** · #**15664** April 23rd, 2022, 11:17 PM

Wasting no time in shouldering to the front of the crowd from where she had stood near the prisoner's den, Cinderpaw peered up at the Thunderwillow. She was dwarfed by it's shadow, its' shady branches creeping across the ground and curling around her and her clanmates. It reminded her of being a kit, and staring up at the copious amounts of warriors she admired - before she outgrew them all, and outgrew the idea that they were worthy of her admiration. The moonlight glinted in her eyes as they shone with something unintelligible.

Well, it was now or never.

With a running start, she bolted towards the tree. A few fox-lengths away, she made a grand leap - and found her claw sunken deep past its' bark, and into the wood. That was step one, just as Mistyshade had taught her. Pawhold by pawhold, she scaled the Thunderwillow, rising higher and higher above the crowd. There was no doubt surprised gazes were boring into her pelt, setting it on fire with rage from some of the more unreasonable - not that Cinderpaw cared. The ascension felt freeing to the molly, as she was no longer planted on the forest floor, surrounded by those who wanted to stifle her words with a placating, 'know your place'. She sucked in cold air - colder than she'd ever known it, even if it was the beginning of newleaf. Soon enough she found herself just beneath the branch Shiningskies had perched herself on. Just like it was her second nature, she easily hauled herself up onto the wooden limb. Her fervent training had proved useful, it seemed - that wouldn't have been so easy a few moons ago. No thanks to Shadowclan's sick 'training' events, of course. She turned to look at the much older warrior, a spark of realization telling her that she was beginning to tower over some of the average warriors in her clan.

"Shiningskies, I'm going to suggest another option." Cinderpaw offered. This was to be an option she and her clanmates could choose - even if some didn't like it, it would be there. She paused for a moment, waiting for any surprise at her jumping onto the Thunderwillow to subside, and then announced her idea.

"We will be able to vote for a third category. For Nectarflame to be executed."

Wasting no time in listening to any of her clanmate's protests, she elaborated. "Like Shiningskies said, Nectarflame decided for us. She decided that we were useless. She decided to bring Dawnstripe in. She decided Lionpaw and Firkit's fates the moment she asked her to come destroy us. You heard me right - a kit was lost in that battle. None of you even cared enough to keep her corpse from rotting in the clearing! Me and Bushpaw had to bury her ourselves. It's not safe for us to just leave 'er out in the wild, unnattended - what if she tries to join another clan and ruin them too, or what if she goes running with her tail between her legs back to the weasels? She could sic those toads on us all over again, and I bet you people would lie down and take it like you did last time." She knew the bengal would have plenty of objections to the word destroy, but the loss of her peer's lives because of the actions of their elders was enough to count as destruction to Cinderpaw. "If she wants to act like a martyr, then she can become one. If she believe's she's in the right, then she should be happy to die for her cause. Or is she more of a coward than the apprentices she's been callin' fools?" Her last words formed a sneer, eyes blazing. No mercy was held in her heart for those who held no mercy for her - the words Nectarflame had dared to spout just a few moments before about how much pain the apprentices had experienced rang all too empty. As far as the tabby was concerned, she might as well have taken her claws to Lionpaw's throat herself - She was as much of a threat to the clan as Dawnstripe was.

**Rizo** · #**15665** April 23rd, 2022, 11:23 PM

~Moosecrash | @implimm~

Turning his gaze back to the Thunderwillow as another cat leapt up for an announcement, the large tom tilted his head in curiosity.
A vote? On if Nectarflame should be allowed to stay?
He turned his hazel eyes on the golden she-cat sitting beside him. It was like he had told her, everyone has their reasons for doing certain things, and he was certain she thought she was doing the right thing for her clan.

~Emberpaw~

Eyes narrowing at the thought of a vote, the orange apprentice lashed her tail.
Yes, please. Let's get rid of this traitor.
Emberpaw was done with all of the trauma that Thunderclan had experienced, and getting rid of one of the main causes suited her just fine.

**dino.** · #**15666** April 24th, 2022, 12:00 AM

// @tulle @littlelove

>Bumblepaw<

So if Cindersky didn’t know about it, then surely this was purely a Shiningskies thing. Bumblepaw swallowed, wavering on the line between bursting out and waiting for further information - then suddenly Cinderpaw was scaling her way up the Thunderwillow.

Uh oh.

His eyes tracked her, and as she spoke, time seemed to slow. “Execution” rang out like an alarm bell, echoing in his ears again and again. His jaw dropped. Cinderpaw was extreme, yes, and angry, rightfully so - but to go as far as to suggest that? It shocked him.

“…I can’t even believe how much of an idiot you are,” he managed finally, rising slowly to his paws. “You were there when Firebird attacked those RiverClan apprentices! Look, I’m far from Nectarflame’s biggest fan, but execution? Are you kidding me?! Why aren’t we voting about Firebird, or even just kicking her out now, or, hell, voting about whether or not to execute her? She’s WAY more important, and this is- this is just crazy! It’s crazy.” His eyes were wide as he stared at Cinderpaw. She had her opinions and he respected that - but this was going too far, even for him. Nectarflame had dragged ShadowClan into this mess, yes, and had indirectly cost them innocent lives. But that had been moons ago, and at least she’d been working on stuff since - Firebird had been not even a few hours earlier. He and his entourage had lost the other Clan's respect, sure, but at least they hadn't completely pissed them off and put ThunderClan at even larger risk.

When Nectarflame had spoken to him that first night he'd come back... she had seemed genuine. Far more so than the rest of ThunderClan's warriors, even if she had stuck them underneath ShadowClan. And though that choice had led to undesirable consequences, at least she’d had a reason.

This? Bumblepaw saw nothing reasonable about this. His voice wavered, anxious and passionate and angry. “I’ll say it again: you’re an idiot, and so is anyone else who votes to kill her. If you seriously go forward with this, you’re not gonna be any better than ShadowClan, ‘cause if we start with this, then where the hell are we going to stop?”

**taillow** · #**15667** April 24th, 2022, 12:38 AM

Cindersky
And then it happened. Cindersky had almost been counting on it - the head of the whole movement it seemed, Cinderpaw shouldering her way to the Thunderwillow and taking the place of a branch just underneath Shiningskies. If it had not followed what was a rather disastrous gathering she might have been proud. But now all Cindersky felt was a trickle of irritation slip down her spine like morning dew dropped from a leaf.

There was so much potential within the she-cat, so much that she could do and become and accomplish - if only she would open her eyes. More than anyone Cindersky understood what it felt like to not be heard - to have decisions made in which she had no say over that directly impacted her. To feel powerless as the course of action was determined by another with no regard in mind to those it would affect.

Nectarflame had done this when she invited ShadowClan into ThunderClan. Ivythorn had done this when she had slaughtered her mate in cold blood. The warriors of ThunderClan had done this when they disregarded the cries of the apprentices around them.

Despite all of this - yes, Cindersky felt the fire and rage, similar to what she supposed Cinderpaw felt right now and all the moons preceded this meeting - she knew that most of the Clan would once again disregard what Cinderpaw was saying because of how she went about it. Voicing complains that needed to be handled, how ThunderClan warriors needed to listen to the apprentices and stop tossing them to the side - but vehementently refusing to allow them to do so. It left her feeling a bitter resentment towards the apprentice - but she hid it easily as she had the rest of her emotions this evening.

Beside her she was surprised to hear Bumblepaw speak up. Her ears also caught what Jaystride growled to her under his breath: that this was ridiculous. And it was. Truly. She had expected such exclamations from Cinderpaw, the she-cat who from where she was sitting was contradicting a lot of what she had stood for. But Shiningskies? A warrior with the knowledge of a Clanmate actively putting ThunderClan in danger? They had no idea what kind of cat the new RiverClan leader was, and if he commanded his Clan to rain down upon ThunderClan...

"You say you despise ShadowClan, and yet are so eager to become like them?"

Her voice rang out up to the duo, but the way she phrased it was intended for the entire Clan. Suddenly she knew it was time. Rising to her paws and striding forward, she stopped at the base of the Thunderwillow. That tree... it was reserved for leaders. For deputies. Not for cats like her; and certainly not for cats calling for the murder of one of their own.

So she refused to climb it and instead turned to look at the cats gathered; her Clan. "The past two moons have been a difficult storm that ThunderClan has had to weather, but tell me this: are we not more united now than we were before? We are taking our fate into our own paws, we are working together, we are listening to one another." As much as Cinderpaw wished to be blind to it, those were the facts; training was getting done, missing cats were being welcomed home, the Clan was moving forward.

To throw it all away and focus on Nectarflame seemed like a claw right to her face.

"What Nectarflame did was wrong." Her tone made it clear that was her stance, but still her eyes avoided looking directly at the golden bengal. "But we have proved to her, and to Dawnstar and ShadowClan, that we are not to be underestimated. We have proved to her that these cats here today are worth something - warriors, apprentices, queens, elders, and even kits. That we are ThunderClan, and we will not be shaken by the mistakes of a few." A few. Because she included herself in that. Taking part in leading untrained apprentices and kits out, when there could have been a better way of going about it. Coddling apprentices when what they really needed was training. She was guilty of that, just as Nectarflame was guilty of bringing ShadowClan down upon them.

Turning her eyes to Cinderpaw and Shiningskies now, she fixed them with an unwavering stare. Her posture stood tall, shoulders back and ears alert. "I hear you both. I respect you both. Shiningskies, you have worked tirelessly for ThunderClan, and no one questions your loyalty. But this? Ignoring the pressing issue of one of our warriors deliberately antagonizing and attacking another Clan at a time of truce? I expected better of you." There was no anger present, no malice. Just disappointment... and somehow that was worse for Cindersky.

Shifting her gaze to Cinderpaw, her expression softened for a moment. "I know you are angry. You have every right to be angry at a Clan that failed you long before you left the nursery." Flashes of the night RiverClan had invaded and Cinderpaw had received the mark on her face - it was still prevelant in her mind. "But executing Nectarflame will not change any of that. It will not make you feel better. It will not bring back Lionpaw, or Firkit. It will not bring back the kithood that you should have had, the one that ThunderClan warriors ripped from you."

Her heart ached for the she-cat. The pain and agony - she could see it clear as day. Underneath the hard shell that Cinderpaw presented to the world as if it was a mirror. Held up and reflecting the first day that Cindersky herself had been tossed into battle. A fresh-faced apprentice, not even six moons old and already thrown to defend her Clan.

"We need to focus on building ThunderClan, not tearing it down by murdering cats. We are not ShadowClan; we are better than that. We do not solve our problems with murder. I do stand behind you in that Nectarflame deserves a punishment for what she did, but death... that is never the answer."

Part of her throat felt a little raw from having elevated her voice. Not into a yell, but loud enough to be heard by every cat. ThunderClan needed to focus on moving forward if they were to have a chance at surviving. And dwelling on the past... would not give them what they so desperately wanted.

[ @Slushie @BILL. - for the mentions of bumblepaw and jaystride @NinjaBloss @littlelove ]

**versailles** · #**15668** April 24th, 2022, 01:53 AM

@littlelove @tulle @NinjaBloss //

➵ [ sleethound | he/him ]

why shiningskies decided to propose a test run on nectarflame and not firebird, the cat who'd literally attacked an apprentice at a gathering, was beyond sleethound. so far, it seemed like the cats who had spoken up thought the same as him for the most part. but oh, of course, nothing could be simple in a clan like thunderclan. his daughter climbing up the thunderwillow and suggesting execution made him frown. annoyance bubbled inside of him - how dare cinderpaw go up there and just embarrass herself - no, embarrass him like that?

"cinderpaw!" he barked, tone gaining a new coldness to it. "get down from there. now." did she not see that there were more important matters than nectarflame? and where in the world was shallowshiver, they should be here attempting to drag their daughter off of the thunderwillow. he grit his teeth together, clenching his jaw for a few moments.

"cindersky is right. nectarflame's reason of bringing shadowclan here was because she thought we were a weak clan, was it not? we've proven her wrong, shadowclan is gone. our main priority should be the warrior who attacked an apprentice at a gathering, a night that is supposed to be one of peace."

people died all of the time - he'd witnessed multiple (some may or may not have been caused by his own claws), it did not faze him. nectarflame's death wouldn't either, but he thought it was pretty pointless to kill her. it wouldn't bring firkit back, or lionpaw, who decided his own fate that night. he had the choice to stop, he didn't. in his view, it seemed dawnstar's invasion worked, too.

the scarred toms eyes narrowed, glaring up at cinderpaw from the den he was guarding. "if you want nectarflame to be executed so badly, then attempt it yourself. just know that you'll be just as bad as the cats you hate so much." and be seen as an embarrassment.

**Madelaine** · #**15669** April 24th, 2022, 02:08 AM

-->Wildspark<--

Hearing Shiningskies say something about voting Wildspark rolled his eyes. Was this the big idea? To him it sounded kind of stupid, but not pointless though. What was pointless was they were going to vole about Nectarflame's status as a Thunderclan warrior. He heard every cat talk about Firebird. Yeah he agreed they should be the one they focus on. Plus he understood Nectarflame was just trying to help her clan even if the decision on bringing those smelly toads into their clan. He had forgiven her about that once she started trying to correct herself. She at least was being a big part of the clan activity. She was helping with rejoinings, so why would they just force her out. That must mean they trust her.

"Now hold up one minute! Nectarflame is helping with rejoining's yet you want to do something about her and her status as a warrior? Isn't that showing us she cares a lot about this clan. If you really think she's disloyal why allow her to do that? She's done a lot for this clan. Yes she may have brought shadowclan in, but she was just doing what she thought was best. Like everyone else I believe that we should be talking about Firebird. She did far worse than Nectarflame. Nectarflame at least saw her mistake while Firebird continues to fight us, because they're a prisoner.", he meowed. Wildspark wasn't sure if it made sense, but he wasn't used to speaking up in front of everyone.

// @implimm; for him mentioning Nectarflame @NinjaBloss; \\

**Hopeless** · #**15670** April 24th, 2022, 02:25 AM

~ Beastflame ~
[If someone could add me to the mentions that'd be great]
[Also not sure who to mention here, so I'm just mentioning the ones he is kinda talking to] @tulle @NinjaBloss @littlelove @implimm

He had almost missed the meeting due to a hunting trip he had taken, but raised voices sounding from the camp called him back, and he quickly placed the round pigeon on the freshkill pile before padding towards the gathered cats. What was going on? So many voices rose up it was hard to keep up when he didn't know how this all had started even.

Rainpaw was atop the Thunderwillow for some reason, something that Beastflame had to admit he didn't really like. That tree was for leaders and their deputies, maybe the medicine cat if needed, but not warriors, or apprentices at that. But what he was most focused on was the words that came from Rainpaw's mouth. 'I don't understand that some of you are angry or disappointed about Dawnstar's departure'WHAT? Who was, Dawnstar had hurt their clan, how could anyone miss her? Sure, she had trained a few cats in battle, but not in a way that would make up for everything else. She wouldn't be missed by him at least, never would he wish for the Shadowqueen to come back to hurt his clanmates more.

But then there were the announcements from the gathering. The gathering Thunderclan shouldn't really have attended, but- Another shocking thing came in the form Rainpaw announcing Kestrelstar's death, and that Sparrowskip had become Skystar when he got his nine lives. It was always a shame when a good leader died, but too much was going on for Beastflame to start caring too much about the leader's passing, nor the new deputy appointed in Windclan.

But to expect the bad news to be over with was dumb, of course there were more, this time Firebird had attack apprentices. A new deputy or leader for one of the clans was one thing, but fighting that had broken out during the gathering no less. Beastflame had previously sat down in a shaded corner, trying to distance himself a little from the chaos, but now the large russet tomcat stood up, alarm flashing in his blue and green eyes. Ok, that was bad. He might not be the most devoted to Starclan, mostly just to Birdspark and her cause, and while followed by him, nor did the warrior code guide his paws. But that was one thing he didn't stand, and that was fighting without a purpose, battle and bloodshed for no reason other than anger or to harm someone else. And that during a gathering, where a holy truce should have been, Thunderclan wasn't supposed to be anyway, and directed towards APPRENTICES?! Tail twitching, his gaze searched for Firebird, the cat who has willingly attacked cats much younger than him. But he shut his eyes and turned back to the Thnderwillow instead of acting towards the other warrior, what could Beastflmae do anyway, it was better to focus on the meeting.

His attention was pulled away though, as Lotuspaw's voice seemed to swallow up everyone else's, shouting about how everyone should be celebrating the fact that Dawnstar had left, and despite the situation, he couldn't help but feel a little, tired smile creep up on his face as he looked at the apprentice. Somehow it seemed to always be the younger cats who made him brighten up when he was down. And to be fair, Lotuspaw had a point, what they said was true, they SHOULD be happy, and to an extent Beastflame was, there were just too many other things going on as well to be truly happy right now.

But then, after a few snaps from Spiderthoart's direction, it seemed Shingingskies also had something to say, and Beastflame sat down once more to listen, though he still didn't like to see warriors on the Thunderwillow. But his ears pricked up as she mentioned voting. Wasn't that one of the things he had talked about with Birdspark when Dawnstar first came of Thunderclan. Well, not exactly that, but new ways to run Thunderclan, when so many times their old ways had failed them, watching leader after leader disappoint. Even Aspenstar, or Aspenstrike. When she had been announced as the leader, he had at first been glad, she was a good cat, she had been since their childhood years, she just wasn't a leader, and that was fine with him.

He stood up, ready to join in and side with the voting idea, but then Shingingskies proposed their test out the voting thing on Nectarflame, and Beastflame had to agree with Jaystride, and Nettletongue. But the Cinderpaw spoke up, and Beastflame could feel the fur on his back prickling in alarm at the idea. To kill a clanmate? Hell no! He could hear Bumblepaw and Cindersky and Sleethound speak, but could barely bring himself to move. How could someone, and apprentice, suggest THAT?

Finally bringing himself to speak, the large tom took a step forward. "Now now, no one is going to kill anyone here. Like Cindersky said, we're Thunderclanners, not like Shadowclan. I also don't think we should kick Nectarflame out either. I remember before dawnstar came here, when many of our clanmates were forced to leave, I would like not to see too much of that anymore. Also, while calling a Shadowclan leader here was a bad bad idea, you're forgetting she did help up before, when Aspenstar was leader she was the one who started calling out everything that was going wrong, and while everything become chaos, she did the right thing by not letting it go on."

He sighed and steadied himself before continuing on to the next point. "As for the voting thing, I have been pondering similar things myself since Dawnstar first came. We have seen many leaders fail in the past, and our clan has been through a bunch of stuff because of that." He swallowed a little, honestly unsure how his clanmates would take the next thing he had to say. "And, maybe, it would be better with a few cats, say three, or five, or something like that, who could decide on things. Like Cindersky Sparrowflight seem to be good cats for that. Of course, we could have a leader as well, someone to announce things at the gathering for us, and do ceremonies and such, simply make sure on one cat ever holds enough power to disregard their duties, invite a Shadowclan leader, start some kind fo war, and so on. This group, a council of sorts, consisting of a few cats could include many different cats with different points of view and opinions. An elder's words could be useful since they have lived so long, maybe a medicine cat could also have a paw in this, and so on. It might be worth a try."

He sat back down, a bit embarrassed by the attention to be honest, but turned to Cinderpaw with a calm look, and in a lower voice, speaking only to her, he said "Also, wishing for the death of a clanmate isn't exactly nice. No matter your opinion on Nectarflame, saying you want to execute her isn't something you should do. We don't kill cats here."

[If anyone's confused on some of his thoughts about Birdspark, you can read what he says here]